As a member of this group, I appreciate your thoughts and dialog. When doubt and a desire of sincere theological conversation arose with me, I continually found no where to turn. Not that most churches wouldn’t be willing to have these discussions about the existence of God or the validity of religion, but they simply don’t have time. The greater need of most churches is family. One of the most painfully frustrating things that has been said to me concerning God and his relationship with man was, “You’ll understand it when you have children.” If God cannot relate to me as I am now, then what is the purpose of being involved with him at this stage in my life? Most dialog between the majority of the church to young adults tends to be a ‘wait for it’ conversation. This is a bit harsh, dismissive, and assumptive; so I appreciate a new discussion about young adults.

Becca,

Good comments. Thanks. What are the top questions you are asking in life right now?

The top ones would probably be:
*The reality of God and what (if any) bounds there are between God and man.
*The singularity of the Christian God.
*The importance of Jesus.

What I desire from my religion and my faith community is not a list of verses or a well-thought out tract. I know the verses and I have the tracts. At this point in life, I need conversation about this, and I suppose it would serve as proof that others have grappled with these issues and still chose this religious path.

Becca,

Great insights. Let me chew on this and respond later. Thanks for the thoughtful engagement.

I want to do a series at OC called “God, I have one question”–take questions from people about their faith, spirituality and do a teach series based on the questions people ask (anonymous of course). What do you think?

I’m not sure if this is a question for me, or for anyone who’s willing to answer, but here’s my response anyways:

Normally, I would think this could go bad because it has a strong potential to turn into a well-meaning, but still mocking question and answer. (Question about God?…BAM, there’s your book, chapter, and verse answer. Next!) However, I think both you and Otter Creek are above that.

I don’t really know the climate that well at OC, but I would imagine that it would help:
* the people who have doubt find a voice
* the people who haven’t ever doubted know that some of their family is struggling
* and give people who have dealt with doubt a chance to share

Wow. I’ve been thinking about doing a class/teaching series called Doubt. Thanks for the suggestion. Very helpful. Keep the ideas coming.

JG

While I think institutions are definitely formative, only one (if it’s fair to call it an institution) is called to be redemptive – the one in which the Holy Spirit dwells.

So I agree that it is deeply self-defeating for the church to ignore young adults in this society. Yes, families with children will build your numbers visibly, but as you’ve mentioned in the first two points, young adults have been abandoned to their own resources as society has shattered. The People of God are called to embrace the abandoned, serve them, and soak them in the love of God.

And Becca – what you’re saying really resonates with me, about the lack of desire for serious theological conversation in your congregation. That’s why I’m in Kentucky commenting on Josh’s blog – Josh with whom I became familiar through his ministry in Michigan.

My theological family is almost entirely internet-based.

Can’t wait to be back at oc for this exact reason.

I can actually pinpoint when I started desiring dialogue rather than pat answers… A ridiculous teen bf/gf drama, led me to tears, asking my mom if gods will is unchangable… If he wants me to for example, wok at mcdonalds, it doesn’t matter how much effort I put into something, I’ll still end up wiling at mcdonalds (this came up when a girl told me it wasn’t gods will for us to be together… Ha!)

From then on, I had more questions than answers, so many questions that I almost lostfaith entirely. I found some comfort reading theologians much smarter than I who have much more nuanced positions on things… But quickly realized in sunday school and other church circles, questions are not much appreciated.

I think there’s something huge going on in churches as well… Because the church is so afraid of questions, those who are able to see things in shades of gray rather than black and white eventually are either ostracized to the point of leaving, or can no longer tolerate the non intellectual bullshit that gets preached to them by the lay leaders (and sometimes not so lay leaders) and leave of their own accord.

So then the church is left with the blind leadig the blind… A group of people unwilling or unable to have dialogue, who continue to shrink in a world where certainty doesn’t make sense, and there are plenty of places to go to find multiple nuanced opinions of every issue (the Internet).

In my observations, the “young adult” crowd needs to become less self-centered. (Insert your obligatory caveat about outlying data here.) It’s a “chicken or the egg” conversation, to be sure: are we unmarried because we’re selfish or selfish because we’re unmarried? But I notice that we unmarried folk are far less likely to say “Yes, I can help” or “I’ll be there” and we’re more likely to say “We’ll see” – all the while thinking “…unless something better comes up.” Unreliable.
I believe your idea of “bricoleurs” dovetails with issue. With no primary identity, we don’t have one group to hold us accountable. Each group thinking, “S/He’s more involved with that other group. I’m sure they’re looking out for him/her.” With this lack of accountability comes great
freedom to be and do exactly and only what I want.
I’m not sure what the answer to this problem is, but it needs, at least, to be named. The church is good at naming issues that plague marriages and parents because the leadership is made of up folks who are married and are parents. We are an unrepresented, but growing, minority. Thank you for asking about us.

Josh,
I appreciate your sharing Wuthnow’s thoughts. As a member of the age group to which you’ve been referring in these posts and a minister, I suppose my reflections and reactions might be a bit different than some others. I guess without going into too much detail, the most striking aspect of each of these posts has been what appears to be an assumption regarding social location (i.e. “young adults” appears to mean urban/suburban, middle/upper-middle/upper class, highly educated, and most likely “professional”). Although my life experience matches up to a degree with that assumption and therefore understand Wuthnow’s conclusions and your conclusions, my experience from ministering in a rural area has led me to some different observations regarding young adults in such contexts. I suppose I’ll just leave it at that for now. Perhaps I can come up from Hohenwald sometime and we could visit about this stuff and more over lunch.

Keith that is a great point that I’ve certainly failed to consider. These examples of how the millenial generation thinks seem to be very ties to middle and upper middle, educated, urban, white folks.

I live in a poor urban area, predominantly African American and for sure the issues were talking about here aren’t even on the radar for people my age (mid 20s) in this neighborhood.

They are much more interested in making enough to survive and give their children a roof and food, and staying out of jail (pretty much the only way to do that is by prostituting if you’re female annaelling drugs if you’re a male).

They don’t care so much about whether a church is askign or not asking questions… They are just looking for followers of Jesus to, you know, act like they are followif Jesus.

Keith, That’s a great point. The study was looking at the mainstream of young adults in Protestant faith (evangelical). It does betray an economic bias (Wuthnow teaches at Princeton). Great observation.

I’d love to hear more of your thoughts.

Justin-great to hear from you, bro. Thanks for adding your “location” to the mix.

Nic–(go Jayhawks, down with Big Blue)…thanks for adding to the dialog. Do you work with young adults from various economic backgrounds?

“Most dialog between the majority of the church to young adults tends to be a ‘wait for it’ conversation.”

Yes. That. It’s frustrating to have so much focus at churches on children and families, but I wonder if that focus is there because it’s assumed that everyone either is, was, or will be in that group. But that’s not the case, and it’s becoming more untrue all the time. To flippantly be told “oh, you’ll understand when you have kids,” when you’re struggling with thinking “I’m almost 30 – am I ever even going to get married? Will I be too old to have kids by the time I do?!” – it’s incredibly disheartening. As is being thought of as an adolescent or not fully mature because you’re not married or don’t have kids.

I was getting a little defensive about the “extended adolescence” bit :), but upon further thought, for a lot of people I do think that’s true. I do see a lot of lack of focus, and I’m not sure why that is. I wonder if part of it is that many of the people I know have the luxury of parents to move back in with or get support from, or student loans to live off of while going back to school or “figuring out life.” And maybe before, that wasn’t the case. My parents’ parents didn’t have money to support them while they found themselves, but my parents could (whether they would is a different question!).

Culture for young adults is changing, and many churches’ approaches aren’t acknowledging that. I think that’s why you see so much “church shopping” and why groups like Ethos are getting so much attention from this group. People feel like they don’t fit in and keep trying to find somewhere where they do – or give up on church altogether and get their community in other ways.

I’m assuming “Justin” is Justin Mundie, lover of Walter Wink’s theology? :) Is that right?

#3 (in the original post) does address some of the socio-economic issues raised here, fyi

I have experienced what you were talking about, feeling part of a “forgotten” church demographic as a single young adult out of school. Churches seem to have strong circles of married young adults, but single young adults feel wholely out of place in those circles even if they are the same age group. It’s a stage-of-life difference more than age. As a single person I have had different groups of friends, some Christian, some not. When I became involved in a church with a strong support system for single young adults, it supported my faith and I began to realize how being involved in those different friendship circles could be a way to introduce Christ to my non-Christian friends. In that way I don’t think it’s a bad thing to have the different circles of friends as long as you can maintain your morals and values in each circle.

Right on the mark Josh.

Can’t thank you enough for letting me borrow that. Really opened up a whole bunch of new ideas for me…

And I think I’m finally divorcing myself from my lockian confines, now able to see a world beyond merely a collectivist/individualistic dualism.

Can’t wait to talk more once I’m back at oc. Another month and a half….

Wuthnow’s 3rd point particularly struck me. One of the first things I did when I graduated college and moved to Nashville 4 years ago was find a church where I could get plugged into a “young professionals/ singles” community. For me, I wasn’t necessarily searching for a church that had all the right answers from the pulpit or the best singing, etc. What I really cared about was finding a community of people that shared my values…people I could eventually open up to and ask those tough questions and learn together. I didn’t know anyone in Nashville, and Otter Creek quickly became the place where I got plugged into and developed friends.

I realize many people my age may not get plugged into a church, but the common thread is that they desire to find a community somewhere. Unfortunately, many young people find community in the wrong places or they depend TOO much on their community. Learning independence is also important for young professionals as well. Perhaps this is where churches/Christian universities miss the mark with young professionals/singles. Certainly this is not always the case, but particularly in the churches of Christ, there is a strong push for young people to find their mate in college and get married with not as much regard to developing people as emotionally healthy and strong individuals. The world outside the church has a completely different view. I think there needs to be a healthy balance of community and independence, or maybe what I am trying to say is that communities need to better cultivate dependence on God instead of other people.

Jennifer T–I think the economic factor is exactly right on. Many YA have the luxury of living in limbo. What surprises me is the lack of “vision” or “hope” people carry with them. I think that’s part of the responsibility of leaders (like TJ @ Otter Creek who embodies what I try and teach).

Natalie–you are right: we know what to do with married young adults but are not equipped (generally speaking)to work with single young adults. Some churches are doing great work…others are simply extending youth group, creating a dating/network service.

Andee: Thanks for the comments. You point out many of the significant nuances of this discussion and I am going to use your comments in my presentations Monday.

Justin: come back SOON.

Regarding your “doubt” class: for what it’s worth, there was a class at oc a while back with similar subject matter. i felt like it did not resolve any doubt, but only bring up new questions of doubt for people who previously had none, and even further dissolve the faith of those who were in the midst of those questions.

while i think it’s good for churches to speak to those with doubts, i now think it might be best not in a sunday morning format.

When YA groups become “extended youth groups/dating network” is seemingly lowers the bar. My ability to function as a positive community influence or as a servant does not and should not depend on my marital status. Sure, it’s going to alter it, someone with a family is going to have different skills and availability. This difference, however, should not put my life, service, or experience on hold. People rise to the expectations put in front of them, and if churches propel this idea that the ‘goal’ of being a YA is to socialize, marry, or float aimlessly, it will continue to happen. There is a wide range of depth of spirit in all age ranges and easily labeled groups.

Josh, thank you for this post and the two preceding it. Those in college age, young professionals, and singles are a growing passion of mine for a couple of years now. I will certainly check Otter Creek out on the internet and check out what y’all are doing there. I want to do a little personal research on what city has the largest population of college students, young professionals, and singles. I plan to graduate from Sunset school of Preaching in May of this year. Don’t know where I will go there after, but where it is I hope to be as involved as possible in reaching out to those in those life stages.
Thank you Josh for your insights.
BTW, I got your book The Feast as a birthday gift. I definitely plan to read it soon. Heard lots of good things about it. God bless you, your family, and the work y’all are doing. Keep it up! Grace and Peace :}

Thanks Zack. Peace upon you in this new season.

JG